If you think influencers are only for B2C
strategies, welcome to 2025.
This is the year of the B2B influencer.
Let’s talk all about it on this episode of Closing Time.
Thanks for tuning in to Closing Time, the show for Go to Market Leaders.
I’m Val Riley, head of marketing for Unbounce and Insightly.
Today I’m joined by Robyn Nissim.
She is founder of the social proof agency.
Robyn, thanks for joining us.
Hi, Val. It’s great to be here.
You’ve had such an impressive career leading social at powerhouse
brands like Anastasia Beverly Hills and Alo Yoga, two of my favorites.
Can you tell us a little bit about your journey, what led you to those roles,
and then what inspired you to start Social Proof Agency?
Of course. And thank you so much.
So I made my career out of being a millennial.
And I started in the traditional advertising world, and nothing
resonated with me.
So I was one of the first social marketers ever taking
brands like Michelin and Nissan on to social media.
And I quit my agency job in 2015, to try freelancing for the first time.
I ended up being at the forefront of the creator economy, building out
Ulta Beauty’s first ever influencer marketing program from the ground up.
And after doing that for a few years,. I decided that it would serve me
well to get some experience working in-house, on the brand side of things.
And so don’t mind my cat. Sorry.
So I went in-house on the brand side of things, where
I served as head of social at brands like Anastasia Beverly Hills and Alo Yoga,
and I continued to see a trend within myself.
And number one, it was that I had this deeply entrepreneurial spirit, spirit.
And number two, it’s that I was most energized by building things.
And so at the end of 2021, I left Alo and I started consulting
as a fractional VP of social media,
and I kept running into the same two key issues.
Number one was at the top C-suite, not understanding social media.
What a strategy looks like, how to support it, and at the bottom up
young, socially native people being thrown into the role
with no proper business marketing experience.
And so I decided to launch Social Proof. Agency to address that head on
by doing private consulting with C-suite executive level marketers,
as well as group training programs for young social marketers,
teaching them how to have systems and processes,
and how to develop a strategy that’s all encompassing of the brand
so that they could really focus on the fun part of the job.
I love it. It’s quite a journey.
You contend that the influencer space is actually getting really crowded.
What do you see happening in the market as a result?
Yeah.
So because of this, we’re seeing a lot of of different things happen.
Number one, we’re seeing more niche creators that are specialized,
we’re seeing marketers be a little bit more performance
based and ROI driven with partnerships that are emerging.
And we’re seeing brands care less about reach and wanting more tangible results.
Influencer marketers now are wising up to knowing, okay,
there are some creators that are available here to draw awareness
for the brand, but they’re not going to push product
and they’re not going to drive conversions, whereas other brands
know, okay, we’re gonna niche down and work with smaller creators
so that we can start driving conversions for this campaign and actually create ROI.
Got it.
So, speaking of ROI, let’s talk a little bit
about the requirements in the influencer space on the B2B side.
In my own experience, in my last role,. I had a B2C function and a B2B function,
and I was really using the influencers on the B2C side of the house.
But I started seeing the overlap onto the B2B side.
And now in my current role, we’re engaged with influencers a ton,
because I really do believe there is a strong, need in B2B
for influencers to, to, you know, take a step forward.
Absolutely. Yes.
I think if we zoom out at a macro level and take away
B2B and B2C, we’re all humans at the end of the day.
And I think we can all agree that the human experience
has become so overwhelming,
especially when we’re talking about being sold to an advertising.
You go to the gas station and it’s just speaking at you
talking about who knows what.. But it’s an ad.
You go to a sporting event, they’re ads everywhere, all over the court.
You know what it’s like on the digital landscape.
And so I think as humans, as consumers, we have this guard of
we don’t want to be sold to because it’s not a pleasant experience.
Most often.
And so when you see a friend or a trusted source
like someone that you used to work with on LinkedIn
or someone that you met at a networking event and they’re telling
you about this amazing experience they had using a specific platform,
or how a program is saving them 20 hours a week,
or how they can source influencers really easily using a new AI tool,
you’re going to want to tune in because it’s a much more trusted source.
And so I think it’s natural for the B2B industry
to follow the B2C industry in this, in this capacity.
And I think we’re only going to see it more and more
because at the end of the day, we’re all humans selling to other humans.
Right.. That’s an interesting point, because.
Yeah, when I’m sitting in front of the TV or I’m at an event, it doesn’t matter.
I am, I am,. I vow from Unbounce and Insightly?
Or am I just a mom and a and a, you know, member of the community?
I’m still the same person.
So speaking to me in that way just feels so much more authentic.
So let’s say we’re talking and, and some brands out there are like, okay, great.
I’d really like to start an influencer strategy.
How do you suggest brands find the right influencers to work with?
That is such a good question.
And it’s a hard question because there is no right answer.
It’s going to be different for every brand, for every campaign.
It’s going to depend on your budget.
It’s going to depend on your goals.
It’s going to depend on your KPIs.
Are you trying to spread awareness?
Are you trying to drive downloads or are you trying to grow your funnel?
So I think bearing that in mind, you’re going to want to
potentially look at, like I said, specific niche creators.
Me, I have a following of marketers, people who are wanting to get better
at brand marketing, social media marketing, and anything creator economy.
So that partnering with me in that perspective might not make sense
for a law firm, right?
Because maybe they’re going to need legal services,
but it’s more likely that they’re going to want
to use a social media platform or learn about that.
So I think we want to look at niche communities.
We want to look at what the KPI is.
We know that smaller creators tend to drive higher conversions,
whereas larger creators tend to be better at building awareness.
So again, what’s your KPI?
And all of those things will follow suit.
And because influencer marketing
is human to human, it’s not AI driven.
There are not algorithms, you know, that, say money in equals money out.
It’s all going to be a test and learn, and it’s going to depend on
how someone resonates with your audience and how
well they’re able to convey your brand message.
I love the point about, niche creators.
Because one thing I have fallen victim to,
when looking to partner with influencers is, you see that
follower number, and you’re like, oh, this is the right person.
And then you see that person actually
posting on social media and the engagement is really low.
But you could have someone with a lot fewer followers,
but the engagement is off the charts.
So even sometimes those those metrics
that we lean on as marketers sometimes don’t tell the full story.
Of course.
And I think, too, if you can get a snapshot into someone’s
back end performance,
that’s always going to help you make a better informed decision.
So in the influencer world,
how do you coin like a long term engagement versus a short term engagement.
Because you know like in the SaaS
world where I, my companies compete,
we are always looking at on a quarterly basis or semiannual basis,
planning a year out is difficult because so much is changing so fast.
Yeah.
Yeah,. I think that’s a really strong point.
And I would challenge that with locking in a creator for a year
doesn’t mean that they know January 1st what they’re going to be
talking about December 1st. Right.
It means we’re contracted to work together.
And by working together over the course of this whole year,
or let it be six months, or maybe you do a three month test.
We’re now partnering with you for a longer term relationship so that
you can take your audience on the journey,
as opposed to a one and done post.
As we all know, algorithms are ever changing.
You can have the best piece of content, and it just might
not work out in your favor.
Or maybe you need to make one little tweak to get a video to a million views.
We hear about things like Mr.
Beast talk about this all the time, right?
And so I think as a brand, having a one
and done partnership with creator is truly a disservice.
Whereas instead you can partner with someone for a three month term
and say, okay, over the next three months, we want six pieces of content
that talks about you onboarding to our platform,
the experience and what that was like for you.
We want to hear how much time you saved in your week or,
how this has impacted you in a positive way.
Maybe there’s something that you love about our platform
and we’re not going to tell you what you love.
We want to hear from you.
What is it that you love that you can tell your audience about
so that it’s this natural progression, right?
And then going back to our our earlier conversation,
it’s about being human and building trust, right.
Maybe the first three videos you see, you’re like, oh, okay, cool.
This person’s talking about this.
But now on video four,. I really understand that this person
is committed to this product.
And now I’m interested in this product.
And ultimately I believe that partnerships like influencer and creator partnerships
can make the sale for you, make it 100% easier.
So that’s kind of how I see it.
I love the idea of, you know, signing a contract
and then growing together or having a journey together
over the course of that contract.
Like, I think sometimes people are afraid to sign something
because they don’t know what it’s going to look like in 6 or 9 months.
But but the way you just described that, it it takes a little with a pressure off.
Like we don’t have to know what it’s going to look like six months from now.
We can be on that journey together.. Totally.
Totally.
And I think the more that brands. B2B and B2C start thinking
like this outside of transaction and leveraging creators
as a transaction and more relational, everyone is going to win.
So as a as somebody who hires or contracts with influencers,
what do you wish people like me knew about working with influencers.
What, where do we sometimes maybe miss the boat?
Yeah.
You know,. I think that it’s trite at this point.
Everyone says trust creators.
Let them create in a way that they want to.
They know their audience best and what’s going to perform best.
But that truly is it.
You’re hiring them to speak to their audience,
and the goal is to get your product in front of their audience.
It’s not you speaking to your audience.
You don’t get to have such a big say about how this person
brings the execution to life, and you have to really trust them
as a creative storyteller before you get into that partnership.
That’s a good tip.
So when you’re working with a brand, talk
about how the different ways you might define success.
So, like I said, are we looking for engagement?
Are we looking for awareness?
Are we looking for conversions?
Is the end goal sales.
And so when I’m being contracted or when I’m contracting creators,
I think it’s really important to always look at vanity metrics, right.
What is the reach?. What are the impressions?
Are people engaging with it?
Are they saving it?
Are they sharing it?
That tells us intent, right?
Is this person being effective in terms of driving awareness?
And then as the second layer to being effective, are they able to convert?
Are they so effective that they’re driving the click to do the desired action?
Are they driving the outreach to get on our wait list for whatever?
Right.
And then of course, third I would say is the sale.
Are they able to actually drive dollars for us?
And it’s really going to depend.
Are you a, you know, a software company that requires
$20,000 a year and, a year long contract?
That’s obviously going to be a much harder sell versus downloading our free report
to get our data right, to learn about our program so that we can
now get into, the minds of these marketers.
So it’s always going to depend.
But those are the three metrics that I really like to look at.
One thing that, you had raised that. I hadn’t really thought about
before is working with multiple influencers at one time.
Like, I sort of have been thinking of it like, okay, we’ll do this one this quarter
and maybe another in the next quarter or the quarter after that.
But you make a case for engaging with multiple influencers at once.
Yeah.
So I want you to think about it like this.
Right. Like you’re consuming on LinkedIn.
And you see my post talking about this podcast.
And it’s like, cool, okay, you might listen, but chances are you’re busy.
You’re there in between meetings.
You’re just kind of scrolling and playing around.
So maybe you see it, maybe you don’t.
Maybe you save it, maybe you never actually take an action.
But then imagine the impact of seeing me
talk about this podcast and then ten other people also talking
about this podcast, or 15 to 20 other people
all talking about this podcast on the same exact day.
At some level,
you’re going to get FOMO and be like, what am I missing with this podcast?
Like, I need to go listen.
I think it’s just going to be a lot more impactful.
So that’s something that I want to encourage, especially B2B marketers,
to think about, is don’t just put all of your eggs in one basket.
If you’re going to invest in creators,
invest in the long run and find a way to be impactful, right?
To make a splash and capture people’s attention.
All right.
All my B2B marketers out there.
You’ve heard it here.
Let’s go engage multiple influencers and let’s get out there in 2025.
Robyn, thank you so much for joining us.
Thank you for having me.
I loved this conversation and B2B marketers, feel free to reach out to me.
Yeah, well, tell tell folks where they can find you.
Yeah, so I’m active on LinkedIn every day.
My name is Robyn Nissim.
You can check me out on my website.
You can join my newsletter.
I send out weekly insights about social media, how to stay
at the top of your game and really operate like a pro in the space.
And you can check out any of my group training programs as well,
if you’re interested, and in strengthening your internal social processes as well.
All right, guys, tons of ways to reach Robyn.
Thank you so much.
Thanks to all of you for tuning in.
Remember, if you want to get closing time
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